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Some suggestions

Discussion in 'The Hive Discussion' started by roquo, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. roquo

    roquo Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    We are not here to bring down hive, just to allow some growth and change in the community :) And regarding your point, I may be wrong, but I think Faysilverwood was also referring to fake reports, as in trolling moderators to waste their time, but I see your concern. Thank you for the feedback turtlelord66 :)
    #21
  2. captainsnake

    captainsnake Talk of the Town Ultimate Member

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    Ok, firstly I'm glad someone is finally compiling these complaints into a form that isn't attacking the staff. And I wholeheartedly agree with this message. While I feel I don't have too much to add to the discussion I do want to bring up moderator inconsistency. The majority of the time I have reported someone who said "KYS" to me/someone else even with only one instance they are punished. This makes sense as saying KYS is much more of an offense than swearing once. But one time my report was denied for the reason "at least two instances of someone breaking rules is required to punish them." I think there should be more consistency when handling reports because the inconsistency makes it much harder for the average player to report using the website.

    As I said before I don't have much to contribute since I have never been falsely banned and the majority of my gripes with staff members are related to personal things and not related to their qualifications to be a moderator.
    #22
  3. Shaxd

    Shaxd Famous Gold Member

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    Completely agree on this. Has happend a lot to me as well. "Idiot noob retard" hasnt been enough and then my friend reports the same guy for "Are you fcking dumb" and he gets muted. Same for reports I even reported a guy 2 times with the same video back in 2015 and the first time it didnt get accepted, the second time it did.

    Enforcing stricter and clearer rules might help. Also maybe letting other mods who are more familiar and experienced with certain hacks handle those reports can also help. (I suggested this be4 and got flamed for it by a Moderator -> this isnt meant to be offensive, some people are just more experienced)
    #23
  4. Bismark

    Bismark a class guy with class glasses Senior Moderator

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    I welcome this kind of thread on the forums, and really appreciate the constructive feedback on offer throughout most of replies I have read.

    With the first point, I agree! Staffing the regular hubs is a problem, but I believe this solution can solved. From the offset I would like to state, I do observe moderators in the regular hub on occasion, but I totally agree that would have more moderators throughout the regular hubs.

    Mentioned by yourself, we could force moderators into the regular hubs, but I don't believe that is a solution. In my opinion, it simply won't work, and it's hard to force people to go to places consistently in such a fashion. Again, mentioned by yourself, I would welcome specifics hubs where moderators could sit and regular players would know there will likely be a moderator there. It is something I am more than willing to bring up within the staff team, and that I would be happy to actively encourage. Perhaps hubs one and two could be the go to places for our staff? The specifics can always be worked out later.

    In many regards, however we handle this situation is a bit of a double edged blade. However, I am sure we can work an appropriate system to accommodate for our regular users who have difficult contacting our staff.

    Additionally, I appreciate that the regular hubs can be hostile in terms of chat offences, and I hope that by having some staff there that we can make them a more friendly place.

    Moving onto the matter of false bans, I will open with fact. False bans are always going to happen, and they always will happen. That is the nature of humans, and we will always make errors. However, I am more than willing to understand that for the most part these can be avoided.

    Catching a user using a ghost client can be difficult, and legitimate users have been banned as suspected of this. I have made my mistakes from this, and others will make there mistakes from this, but we are constantly looking to improve and learn from these mistakes.

    Your proposed solution to this is taking shape! In the staff team, senior staff members are giving examples of how such hacks look, and other examples of simply good players. We hope this helps to improve proceedings, but fully understand all the concern on your part.

    As for the community, I welcome a community effort to understand the intricacies of a ghost client, and would be more than glad to get involved should anyone so desire.

    This matter is always one that will be difficult to solve, but I welcome any suggestions as to how we can improve this and prevent the number of false bans from what is currently is.

    Regarding the matter of a cost for a report, this is a more tricky subject. Should new players with a legitimate grievance be left out on the basis they are new to the server? Should a player have to spend their tokens simply so they can report a player for hacking? It is a difficult system to impose, and one with an ongoing debate. I appreciate that not everyone has access to discord to report said hackers, but perhaps our earlier system of having moderators in certain regular hubs could be of interest?

    I really appreciate the mature discussion regarding this, and I am open to any questions regarding what I have said, or anything else you may wish to know.

    My apologies if I repeated anything that has been said by the above users in the thread, and sorry about the length of this haha.
    #24
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  5. Torza

    Torza Moderator Moderator

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    An automatic message sent every 10-30 minutes saying something like "If you need assistance, Moderators can be found in Hub 1" for the other regular lobbies could be helpful if mods did start going to regular hub more.

    I definitely don't agree with forcing them to spend a specific amount of time in a certain area, and I doubt after all the points that have been made nothing will change. So as long as all the mods work together and communicate well I think all the suggestions in this thread could work incredibly well and make hive a nicer place for newer players.
    #25
  6. roquo

    roquo Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    I have to admit -I very much enjoyed reading about your point of view, as one of the senior moderators. I'm very glad that the lack of regular hub moderation is seen as a fixable problem and that you'd be willing to encourage others to view it as such as well. I'd also like to thank you for being open about this situation and, offering your own time to help understand ghost clients. I'm looking forward for more conversation on how to improve the community, thank you for your input Bismark :)
    #26
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  7. roquo

    roquo Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    @MylesDev Would an automatic message across all regular hubs be possible? It seems like a good thing to inform players that they can be assisted/informed of their resources. I like your suggestion Torza, thank you!
    #27
  8. hapuna

    hapuna Talk of the Town Emerald Member

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    First of all, I think it’s so awesome you were able to bring attention to all these issues in such a kind manner! I agree with you, it would be nice if the regular hubs were supervised a bit more often. I’m glad that people think that it is a fixable problem and hope that it will be looked into! When I was mod I tried to get out into regular hubs but I unfortunately never had much time to get online. I like Torza’s idea of sending out a little broadcast every now and then could be helpful for players.
    As for the false bans, yes unfortunately as humans we all make mistakes. From those mistakes, we should always be able to learn from them, and maybe get a better sense of what to look out for. We can always be working on this, even though it can be tricky!
    I think the suggestions in this thread could help the community out a lot, hope to see them put into action in the future!
    #28
  9. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    @Faysilverwood as for the debt, if a mod knows that a certain player trolled them, I believe the usual punishment system needs to kick in and that player should be banned for trolling staff making the debt system useless. I myself would not spend 10k tokens just to report someone, agreed, but collecting tokens does make sure the prosecutor has at least some experience with the concept of a minecraft server.

    I'm thinking very far ahead now, but what about simply using report points? Everyone starts with 3 points they can use to call a mod, when they make a false report a point gets retracted, when one is accepted they gain a point. Trusted members would easily stack up their points, but trollers would be quickly at 0.

    @Shaxd and @captainsnake I couldn't agree more on that, mods should be willing to compare with other reports before they make a final conclusion. Different mods are different humans, agreed, but can't there be some form of guideline with strict rules? By that I mean a min. amount of swearwords, a min amount of messages in a short timespan - then again, what is 'short'? - before it's counted as spam, and stuff like that.
    #29
  10. Faysilverwood

    Faysilverwood Famous

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    That also sounds like a good idea, and I also think @Torza ’s broadcasting idea is pretty good. Perhaps a combination of both suggestions would be good?
    #30
  11. LandBeforeTime

    LandBeforeTime Talk of the Town Ultimate Member

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    The token would be awful for TIMV players, a lot of us spend tokens to traitor passes, and if we report someone for possibly RDMing and they weren't, how come mods know if they are being trolled or it was an actual report?
    #31
  12. WatchMeMop

    WatchMeMop Famous

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    I agree with pretty much everything you said. The big thing that I see when I scroll through the discord is how few of the staff are online and not playing Minecraft. It's okay to play other games, obviously, but it's pretty rare to see more than 3 or 4 on at a time, and they usually aren't actually playing the game. The discord reporting has helped, it's quick way to get to the staff because it pings them all, but it could be detrimental because of lack of actual playing. If I'm totally wrong on this, I apologize, and will edit later if need be. It's just speculation. But I sort of see it as a connection to the lack of regular hub moderating.

    On the topic of false bans, everyone has hit the nail on the head. It's just going to happen. False imprisonments, punishments in school, etc. happen in everyday life all the time, whether we like it or not. It's just the way life is. One thing that I want to add is that we only really see one side of the ban story or the other. Only the staff that handles the situation and accused player have ALL the facts. We as regular players almost never see the full story and all the facts from both parties. You are correct in saying that it does happen, but sometimes there are those out there who are actually committing a violation and then say to the public that they did not to hurt the staff.

    All around great forum topic! It's so nice to see things like this presented in a calm, mature way. And to see the rest of the community giving their two cents the same way :D
    #32
  13. DDiv

    DDiv Well Known Bee

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    I would like to start off by thanking you for making such a well-constructed and respectful thread, allowing for a civilized conversation to take place. I have spent years as a regular member on the Hive and I have recently seen things from a staff member's point of view as well, so I believe I should state my opinion regarding this matter.
    About the regular hubs moderation
    I am well aware of what goes on in the regular hubs at times. I completely agree that things need to be changed and new measures must be taken to solve this problem. I have to mention that although I can see where you're coming from, I completely disagree on the Token idea. Everyone should be able to talk to mods whenever they need help and report people whenever they think they're breaking some rule, regardless of how many tokens they have. Having a moderator on every single hub is out of the question too, the numbers just don't add up and forcing moderators to be somewhere specific would probably not end well. Instead, we can encourage mods to spend more time on the regular hubs. One idea I've thought of is for moderators to be able to see as well as talk in the premium chat whether they're in a premium hub or in a regular one. A conjoined chat, just like the one all the premium hubs already have. The reason why I personally don't choose to spend almost any time at all in the regular hubs is because I would miss out on too much stuff, like people being reported and people asking for help in the premium hub. The premium hub is, without a doubt, where most "action" takes place and it will be really hard to draw moderators away from that so instead we can bring that "action" to them while keeping at least some of the regular hubs moderated. On that note, I believe there are a bit too many regular hubs - of course I understand that there are many more regular members than premiums, which is why there will always be more regular hubs, but I think it is a bit unnecessary to have 15 active hubs with 15-20 people on each one. Having 6-7 more populated regular hubs would make everyone's lives easier in an instant. I like the idea of having a specific regular hub where people can count on finding available mods. I even think this specific hub should be made the default hub that mods spawn in when logging into the server or getting out of a game, along with the premium hub (random selection between the two). One last thing I'd like to suggest is (I believe it was already mentioned by someone on this thread and I like it) information about reporting people and talking to mods should be displayed to players every once in a while, just like there is for creating a party and visiting the store or the forums. Having some automatic messages that inform players about commands such as /login report and /chatreport would save everyone a lot of trouble while helping the server deal with rule breakers.
    About the false bans
    Although I understand why this was brought up here, I don't think there is any room for discussion on this matter. As people have said multiple times already, we are humans, we will make mistakes, there's no avoiding that. Obviously, we are always trying to improve ourselves and reduce the amount of false bans that take place and as Bismask said, your idea has already been implemented, in a way. That's basically all there is to it.

    TL;DR: Reduce the amount of regular hubs, make moderators be able to participate in the premium chat while moderating a regular hub, add auto-messages with information pertinent to the reporting system.

    Thank you for your time!
    #33
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  14. captainsnake

    captainsnake Talk of the Town Ultimate Member

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    Wait? I haven’t been following this. Are we saying that people should have to play tokens to report? That’s rediculous. I shouldn’t have to limit the amount of cosmetics or t-passes I buy just to be able to report people! There shouldn’t be anything limiting a player from reporting people that is tied to in game items. And I don’t think that will fix issues of troll reports because most people have an excess of tokens once they’ve gotten the cosmetics they want, and this is still a “pay to report” system because you can purchase tokens from the shop (I believe) AND buying premium grants 100k tokens. This is a horrible idea, please do not implement that.
    #34
  15. roquo

    roquo Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    You make a totally valid point CapitainSnake, and that's why this thread is here - to discuss everyone's opinions, and I thank you for mentioning yours :)
    #35
  16. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    If this is the case, I'm afraid there'll never be an easy report system for new/regular players. The only reason the /report command isn't introduced yet is trolling, I think, and just handing out the report option to everyone will only increase the amount of people trolling or being able to troll. Hence the token idea, I'm well aware that it seems weird to have to pay to report someone but it does make sure the player has at least some experience (since they have to play on Hive before they can collect the tokens necessairy to report someone). The amount of tokens you have to pay will ofc reduce when you make a legit report, and when you make a false report you will ofc get punished for it. In the end (imagine the first report costs 5k tokens and the costs reduce with 1k each report), you'll only end up having spent a handful of tokens.

    Imagine you've played enough bw to buy all the cosmetics you want, in that case it seems pretty logical to me that you like the game, and spent a decent amount of time in it. Are you really going to sacrifice your tokens AND your account (u'll get banned for false reports) just to troll someone? It won't fully fix the issue, but might heavily reduce it.

    It's not pay to report since you can earn the tokens ig. Also tokens aren't buyable in the shop.

    If you've gotten that far on a minecraft server to buy a rank, you won't just waste your rank on one false report (again, keeping in mind that the player who trolled will get instant banned by the mod they called)

    Thanks for your point of view tho! I also think this system seems terrible at first glance, I also wouldn't be excited to have to pay to report someone, but in my eyes this is the only reasonable solution to avoid huge trolling...
    Any better ideas are of course more than welcome!
    #36
  17. turtlelord66

    turtlelord66 V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    Personally I agree with snake, using tokens would be a huge turn off for new players and a pain for active ones (even the ones with a large amount of tokens). I don't think players would abuse the command too much, yea there will be some occasions but as long as the right cooldowns are there it shouldn't be a huge problem.
    Something like, you can only /report every 60s, once a player has been reported no one else can /report them for another 10mins and you cant report the same person for another hour. idk the exact numbers but i would hope just having cooldowns would be enough to stop false reports.
    #37
  18. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    Cooldowns seem like a much better option, since it motivates ppl more to report hackers, you don't have to pay something for it.
    There's still tons of problems with a cooldown system but there probably isn't a perfect report system.
    #38
  19. Torza

    Torza Moderator Moderator

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    I think a combination of a point system (mentioned by Murw earlier) and also the cooldown concept could work pretty well as tokens would take it a bit too far and would make a large amount of players unhappy
    #39
  20. Caro

    Caro V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    I have been reading all the messages and got really excited so far cause this is such a nice discussion and I am really happy to see one of those on my loved forums : - )

    My ideas have never been the best but I would just like to say that I think people tried to suggest this command for years. And as everyone mentioned, the reason it didn't get added was trolling.
    I honestly don't think people would use it for trolling (of course there will be).
    There are a lot of rulebreakers and a lot of people get really annoyey by them. The solution for this is said command.
    I truly believe that almost everyone would welcome this idea and definitely not abuse it.

    So instead of having to spend tokens on this, there could be a cooldown for those who are trying to abuse it.
    For example: Reporting the same player over and over again, reporting moderators etc.
    After you have submitted a report and it got dealt with successfully, users could get a small reward such as tokens or even one Lucky Crate.
    These are just ideas of course.

    I don't think it would be a good idea to add this "you need to spend tokens" to be able to report someone since every player should have the same options and "rights" if you want to call it like that.

    I also think this would be easier for moderators to handle reports in-game. They wouldn't need to be in certain hubs to moderate them (of course chat wise but for hacking or other offenses), they could just see a report and join the server to spectate those players.

    And as said sooo many times before, moderators can't be in every single game. But we are the ones playing it, we are in all those lobbies - so instead of us dying to a rulebreaker or just simply having to deal with one - we could report them in-game and a moderator could join and deal with the situation.
    People wouldn't have to join the hub and hoping for a moderator to reply either :c

    Maybe this would bring more players back to the server and Hive players would become more active again - both staff and regular players.


    Sorry for my bad english and sorry if you don't understand something I have mentioned - feel free to ask and I will try to clarify.
    #40
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