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My problems with Shuffle.

Discussion in 'The Hive Discussion' started by Headsup, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Headsup

    Headsup Honey Maker

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    Hello everyone!

    I finally have a forum profile after 5 years! xD

    To start things off, I'd like to get something off my chest...

    As someone who has climbed all the way to the top 3 of the Shuffle leaderboards, I feel like I must say that Shuffle in Java 2 has been unbelievably hard to stomach for me. I've barely even played it at all since. All the changes that were made, all the games that were added, and all the games that were removed have made me quite bitter about this and has inspired me to write this topic.

    Below I have listed the main gripes that I have about the new Shuffle, and about the Arcade in general. I’d love to hear everyone’s opinion on this because this means a lot to me, but if you disagree with anything, please tell me why instead of just going “nuh-uh!”



    1. More games need to have a stand-alone equivalent other than Splegg.​

    This is the main overarching point that a lot of the future arguments will relate to. To put it simply, I strongly dislike the fact that the only game that’s in Shuffle that can be played separately is Splegg. As I’m sure most of you know, in the old hub each game in the Arcade was playable as its own game, from Music Masters on one end to Cranked on the other. To me, it's obvious that this was the better way of doing things, as there isn’t a constant pressure of playing a game that you don’t enjoy like there is now. Instead, you could just hop on and play your favorite game non-stop. The counterpoint to this is that these games are less popular and don't fill up very fast, but there was one magical feature that fixed that problem right up. That feature is that whenever you stood in the arcade hub, you were notified in chat of which games were about to start.

    If the arcade games do become separate again, as they should, I would like these small changes to be made to Shuffle.
    • Make it so that EF Turbo is the only EF game in Shuffle. With both regular EF and EF Turbo in Shuffle, there is kind of an Electric Floor overload.
    • Remove all of the OITC and Instagib maps that were added and let's just stick with the 2 we've always had. With OITC as its own game, you can play those maps there, but in Shuffle I prefer the 2 that were always there to begin with.

    2. Remove BatteryDash and Sploop from Shuffle and add back Music Masters, Restaurant Rush and Death Drop.​

    This is definitely the point that I am most salty about because when Java 2 came along, I lost the ability to play 3 of my favorite games in Shuffle. And to add on to that, they were replaced with two games that simply do not belong in this game mode. BatteryDash and Sploop games are always crazily unbalanced because they are team-based unlike any other game in Shuffle. In fact, this ties in perfectly with my first point, as these 2 games absolutely need to be a stand-alones again. As for the three games that were removed, I honestly cannot believe it as they were a ton of fun to play and yet now they are just... gone. I sincerely hope that they are just temporarily removed and they will be added back in the future.

    3. Fix the Electric Floor and EF Turbo hitboxes and slow down the pacing for Turbo.​

    It didn't take long for me to discover that the hitboxes for red blocks in the Electric Floor games have completely swapped with one another. Before, the regular EF hitboxes were unforgiving and the Turbo ones were easier to parkour with. In Java 2 its the exact opposite. I've also noticed that in EF Turbo you can no longer sit still AT ALL. I've tried to type as little as 3 letters in chat and I still got shocked. This deeply saddens me as I have fond memories of filling entire maps with red in Turbo with friends but that's no longer possible now. Fixing these issues doesn't seem difficult, so I'm hoping something can be done about that.

    4. Fix the entire rank system.
    Remember the good old days? You know, when each game had its own rank system instead of having one rank across all arcade games? I can get lost for hours reminiscing about that. But seriously, does anyone actually prefer the new rank system to the old one? If I am playing a game of Splegg in Shuffle, then why should my Electric Floor rank show up? It just doesn't make sense. I also remember when Shuffle had its very own unique rank system, and I would absolutely love for that to be brought back. I sorely miss the rank I had in that game and I even considered quitting for good once I saw that it was removed without a trace. I am positive that many, many, many other people miss the rank they once had in their respective game, as well.

    5. Start the countdown timer at 60 seconds and not 20.
    This is another extremely easy fix that would make the game so much more fun to play. Quite simply, there is not enough time to vote for a game and chill with friends in the lobby without being focused on playing said game in 20 seconds. I feel like when Java 2 came along, the main idea for Shuffle was to have the quickest playing experience possible. With this mindset, a vast majority of the fun that I had while playing was swept up and thrown away. Please, I humbly ask that the countdown timer is extended and that EF Turbo gets a slower pacing.

    6. Make the end-game podiums more exciting.
    Currently, the three end-game podiums just show who got first, second, and third. In the old Shuffle, it wasn't like that. For example, in Instagib, the three podiums were for the winner, the person who got the largest kill streak, and for the person who died the most. Almost every single game had some fun spin on the podiums so there was more excitement to play, as opposed to the boring old first, second, and third.



    That's pretty much everything that I felt like I needed to get off my chest. I apologize if this was a little long to read, but this used to be my absolute favorite game to play on The Hive and I would like for that to become true again. I also apologize if any of this came off as salty, because I definitely am bitter about the way Shuffle is now. Nonetheless, I hope everyone agrees and that I can have my favorite game back!

    Thanks for reading :)

    ~Headsup

    2 day late EDIT: Something that I think was missing from this post that didn't cross my mind was said later on and it got buried. I'd like to move it up here so more people can see :D

    Why did the Shuffle community and I enjoy Java 1 Shuffle so much?
    The way that Shuffle used to be, it honestly welcomed anyone. The game had all the fun of the regular arcade, with some of the more slower pacing that made it enjoyable and relaxing to play for newcomers and veterans alike. All the 'shuffle versions' of the Arcade games had a slower pacing and were purely meant to be enjoyed at face value, not no-lifed. (People play Shuffle now to tryhard rather than relax, and I believe it's because only being in the top 3 is what mattered back then.) The game was honestly just an amazing way to chill out with friends while having a common goal of playing the game. Now, everything seems like it's meant to go at such a fast pace. For example, the countdown timer is 3 times faster, you can't sit still in EF turbo, and not to mention the NPC's being much closer to spawn. I just generally feel like now, the intentions for Shuffle were to play as many games in as little time as possible, and that completely takes away from the slow-paced more chill version that I once knew. That's the best way I can describe why I loved shuffle so much, and the 'shuffle magic' that used to exist.

    That may sound weird or unusual, but it's what I and many others grew to love. Because honestly, as time went on, I continued to see more and more people regularly play Shuffle, and I haven't seen any since. The Shuffle community was cut off at the time of it's peak in my opinion, when I could find a game the easiest and more often than not I'd see a friend that I could casually play with.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  2. Gargant

    Gargant Talk of the Town Ultimate Member

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    I really think you have some good points.
    Honestly, I miss being able to play standalone Cranked and OITC, but in the same time I understand that changes had to be done for a smoother and more cost-effective Hive.

    EDIT: If the Shuffle community would all agree with you I am sure that the Hive Team will consider adjusting the gamemode.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  3. Headsup

    Headsup Honey Maker

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    Thanks for the kind works, Gargant! :D

    And yes, I will say that the majority of my friends who played shuffle have either slowed their pace significantly, or moved to other games altogether.
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  4. Wishfvl

    Wishfvl Famous Ultimate Member

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    I think the rank issue you mentioned is a bug, and in my opinion the only thing that really needs a big change that is not a bug is that restaurant rush, music masters and death drop need to be added back. Even though team games might not fit to some, they have to go somewhere and all the standalone arcade games except for drawit and splegg SEVERLY struggled to get enough people for games unless you had a decent sized party. I think if the other games were added it would balance out the electric floor overload. I do play a bit of shuffle now and the team games don't feel out of place at all but I get that it was never my main game.
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  5. Combine

    Combine Honey Maker

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    I don’t think it’s a good idea, because people might love BatteryDash and Sploop, and if these games are removed, I think people will start a thread and say "Please bring back BatteryDash !".
    However, adding back Music Masters, Restaurant Rush and Death Drop could be a good idea yeah.

    I definitely agree with this one, people will almost choose the same game over and over... it can be very frustrating for those who want to try something else !

    For the rest, I wait others opinions, but you have to know that developers have to continue the work on Java 2, like anticheat... so it might not be today that it’ll change, so I think we have to wait :).
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  6. Headsup

    Headsup Honey Maker

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    Yeah you're right, some games were definitely more popular than others, but games like EF and OITC weren't bad at all for finding games. I was able to play 1000+ games of EF in the months leading up to Java 2, for instance. The team games though, always have a balance issue. I often find that my team outnumbers others or that I'm even outnumbered myself. In those cases, I just leave the game, which hurts my stats and makes me even more salty about Shuffle haha

    I don't think BatteryDash and Sploop need to be entirely removed, but they should be standalones because finding the right amount of players for a balanced game takes longer than the 20 seconds (which should be 60) that we have.
    And I don't mind waiting as I can play other games in the meantime, I'd just like to know what's coming down the road :p
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2020
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  7. Hwamz

    Hwamz V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    EFT is a lot more fast paced than EF and maybe EF stats could be transfered to EFT instead. I still prefer EF over EFT but in java 2 the hitboxes are completely different so it ruins that factor I’ve said this since I’ve been told hitboxes will likely not be changed since it will cause confusion between the modes. A way to fix this to use a way smaller map pool for EF to see that suggestion click here
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  8. Snavy

    Snavy Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    Pacman here
    I agree with pretty much everything you said, Shuffle was much better in Java 1 in terms of experience. Now, they even managed to make the little remaining arcade mains (except Splegg) quit Hive, leaving Shuffle's player base to be made of cheating steves banned from other servers that will never buy any rank on our server.. From my humble point of view, Java 2 did not fix Hive's economic problem, it only delayed the end at best. The already dying community made up of real Hive enthusiasts is pretty much history at this point, it all seems that Hive staff made the choice between the Community and the player count & theoretical profits which are at the end, just meaningless numbers for us, the players who just want to hang out and meet friends. In other words, good time is not served here, you should seek for other places because I really don't think they're going to change anything since this is not their priority as they often say
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  9. Jassy

    Jassy Talk of the Town Emerald Member

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    As an oitc player, I dont think they should remove all maps.
    Those two that were in shuffle before are the worst maps for oitc tbh. I miss voting for maps, since it is mostly Hellish Depths, Melty Molten and Lilac Grove now. Those plus Marple Willow just dont fit in oitc anymore. Lets be honest, Hive doesnt have that many players anymore and those maps are just simply too big.

    The spawning system is also really one-sided now, triggering spawn-kill-farming on a certain place. The spawn protection Hive added now doesnt help at all. You get slow and blindness when spawning. After that you need to orientate yourself but at this time you will already get shot.

    I also think that Battery Dash and Sploop should stay since those are also games I play regularly.
    I think splegg should be removed so it makes space for the games you mentioned.
    It doesnt make sense to have splegg in there since it is a standalone game now.
    It really annoys me a lot when prems join shuffle just to vote for splegg when others are trying to play their beloved game that didnt manage to be a standalone game.

    Shuffle in general has a lot of bugs now, the servers go down very often and I think that java2 was not ready to be released.
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  10. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    Problem is, most people commenting here are/were shuffle players. Yes, the shuffle community is destroyed but that happened to every other game that got removed. And you as well as I know that the removal of these games, and as such also the redesigning of shuffle, were needed to keep the server going. You've commented on business aspects of the server multiple times, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they now decided to throw customer satisfaction out of the window to make place for their more popular games. Shuffle was better in java 1 simply because it doesn't exist anymore in java 2. Shuffle, the game mode, was changed for shuffle, the arcade infrastructure. You don't play shuffle anymore, you play the arcade games through shuffle. Also, except for the shuffle-only players, the damage was actually really fine, lots of old arcade players came back/are still around. Also, no problem is fixable, the only thing we do is delaying the inevitable c:

    This thread does have some great suggestion for several of the arcade games, but I don't think the shuffle community realises that their game mode got removed, and that there's no point in bringing it back.
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  11. Snavy

    Snavy Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    That is exactly what I said at the end of my post, Shuffle as it was, is not served anymore, better just go seek other servers/games. Furthermore concerning Shuffle, each of us surely does say biased, shuffle player thoughts, but if more and more people complain about Java 2 and especially in Arcade, it must be for a good reason, apart from minor questions about maps & bugs, the general direction is just wrong, I personally think that removing SG:Heroes, The Herobrine, and merge some few games into Shuffle is a fair enough, not slamming everything into an unfinished game that no one will enjoy. Even if I'm not very friend with @Jassy I have to agree that it can be very annoying and disappointing having to play tons of games you didn't ask such as Splegg in order to finally get a game of EF for example
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  12. Headsup

    Headsup Honey Maker

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    I couldn't agree more with your final point. The whole point of having a standalone arcade was that you wouldn't end up playing games you don't enjoy. Now that literally every game is in Shuffle, you are more likely to end up doing just that, especially if a bunch of ranked players join and the game they vote for wins uncontested.
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  13. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    So you're basically saying it would've been better to remove the arcade altogether?
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  14. Wishfvl

    Wishfvl Famous Ultimate Member

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    But you can't always have your way. Hive HAS to go with the majority if they want to keep the server running, and that meant removing the games that didn't get a lot of players (most of the arcade). As much as you guys might have loved old shuffle, they can't just keep something that will keep you happy if it's worse for the server overall. You personally may rather play a game of electric floor than a game of sploop, but if sploop wins the vote then it's because the majority wanted to play sploop and hive saves money by putting you all into one game than into two seperate games that will take twice as long to actually start. I didn't play any standalone arcade before java 1 but I enjoy shuffle because it means that even if I get the occasional game I don't like, the other games I like are actually playable without me having to sit there for 5 minutes. Mabye you are okay with waiting that long for a game but most people aren't and Hive has to cater to that
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  15. TomPlay

    TomPlay Talk of the Town

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    Responding to both your post and your status:

    In this situation the best you could do is be patient and see what Shuffle will look like in the near future. You can't expect everything to stay the same over time because the changes that were made were necessary for the survival of the server, it might be drastic but there's a reasoning behind. Think about all the players from the games that got removed altogether: they are going through the same as you, frustration, sadness, etc.
    I personally believe your best option is to adapt, nothing is certain at this point and even though there are plenty of complaints things may not go back to what they were before. So, if you enjoy the server and its community as much as I do, consider your options and be thankful for all the good times you've spent on here. I hope you can find solutions to your concerns, and I wish you the best of luck.
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  16. Sweanz

    Sweanz V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    I just wanna point out the fact that DD, RR, and MM weren’t completely removed. They will be back once they are suitable to play again, but who knows when that will be.

    I also want to say that I’m fairly certain we will see many fixes/changes in the future, but there’s clearly a lot to be worked on with the server outside of shuffle. My guess is that shuffle is lower on the priority list since the player count isn’t as high for the arcade.
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  17. Headsup

    Headsup Honey Maker

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    Wow it's refreshing to actually hear some good news. That put a smile on my face, I will say :p

    And I fully understand that there are more urgent topics that need to be worked on than shuffle, again I don't mind waiting (a long time as long as I know its coming!) for some improvements to be made to my favorite game.
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  18. Snavy

    Snavy Well Known Bee Ultimate Member

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    I don't think you guys can fully understand what we're talking about when you guys weren't active in Java 1 Shuffle @Wishfvl @TomPlay
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  19. Juracan

    Juracan Famous Ultimate Member

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    Outsiders always have more rational views than insiders. Plus, I was active in Java 1 shuffle and still think java 2 was a tremendous improvement
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  20. Wishfvl

    Wishfvl Famous Ultimate Member

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    I know this isn't the exact same but I really liked mimv in java 1 (5000+ games played) and now it's been removed, but that hasn't stopped me seeing that removing it was necessary for Hive to have a future.
    #20

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