Hotel California/Oasis opinions

Discussion in 'Hide and Seek' started by Apple9494, Jul 22, 2017.

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  1. Apple9494

    Apple9494 V.I.BEE

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    Following the tradition of making an opinion thread regarding new maps that come out for HnS, I thought I would create one about the newest maps up to date, Hotel California, which is essentially a remake of Hotel map, and Oasis.

    My thoughts about HC
    1) Pots are as unnecessary as they are in CS_Office. (Or in other words, being a pot does not make you less obvious).
    2) I dont really get the trend, that is when map creators are trying to increase the amount of spots by putting holes in the ground, and allowing pots to be selected. That just allowes smart hiders to extend their range which is pretty annoying.
    3) Leaves and Spruce Planks are the best blocks for this map, simply because there is a ton of leaf block piles, and with Planks you can blend in with any table there is.

    Differences from the original Hotel (besides the block variation):
    1) Suite room is blocked off, so is the corridor to it.
    2) Parkour "shelf" spots throughout the map.
    3) You can not get killed by the first seeker during warm-up period.
    4) You can still hide near the restaurant part (Experienced players know what I am talking about), only as a leaf block though.
    5) You can hide in cauldrons as a pot, so you would better use F3+B to find those.

    Also, there is one toilet cubicle which can become a trap if you are not looking. (I think it is a bug)

    My thoughts about Oasis:
    1) Has a Space-ish vibe for me, with all those block piles and outside area.
    2) Has an OP parkour spot, getting to which is significantly easier on 1.9+ than on 1.8 (still it is incredibly hard not to get knocked off). I feel like it is as OP as the roof spot on Bora Bora.
    [​IMG]
    3) Has also pots - each of the last 5-6 maps have as well, I feel like it is a vain measure to increase seeking difficulty.
    4) You can suicide before the seeker is released. (Not saying how, try to find out on your own)
    5) Has a bunch of troll spots, that being top of market stands (and more). There is a magenta one which is the most effective for that. Just like with pistons on CS_Office, you can become a solid pot behind a block on it, and knock seekers off.

    Overall, HC exceeds Oasis in terms of difficulty, in my opinion.

    What are your opinions on these maps?
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  2. Cari

    Cari Talk of the Town Ultimate Member

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    In my oppinion, the red standstone has way to less hiding opportunities. It could be fixed (or atleast made more playable) by either adding new spots or replacing it to normal sandstone (as well as every red standstone in the map), so it would function like snow on the original Hotel.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  3. b0xx3r

    b0xx3r Ed the Social Panda Hive Owner

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    Just to remind people, as with every new Hide and Seek map we want to hear your (useful) feedback about the blocks to hide with and if you have some nice suggestions that make it fun to play on from both sides, it's very expected to release a hide and seek map, then release a tweaked version within a week of it coming out.
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  4. AMinecraftStory

    AMinecraftStory V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    @b0xx3r hotel california is very well balanced the way it is, I don't think it needs any updates.

    However on oasis, the 2 OP spots should be removed. The one that @RoyalOverwatch is talking about, and the other ladder trapdoor spots throughout the map that can only be accessed on certain mc versions.
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  5. Errnie

    Errnie The Bees Knees Emerald Member

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    So first of all I love it when they add new maps, especially for hns but, Hotel california and Oasis are a bit weird because boxxer once posted in this thread
    https://forum.hivemc.com/threads/hive-map-timeline-new-version-of-games-we-need-maps-for.268202/
    He told builders to NOT stack up blocks and not to spam blocks around the map but legit everywhere in the map hotel california are oak leaves spammed around which doesn't make sense at all.
    In oasis there are also just piles of blocks everywhere.
    And again the flower pots (I 'd like to get them removed), Pripyat, before space and hotel are in my opinion really balanced maps without flower pots for the hiders and seekers.
    oh and that spot on Oasis shouldn't get removed but make it easier for the seekers to get there because not everyone is playing 1.9+ it's really impossible for people playing in 1.8 and seekers might spam the trapdoors which makes it more impossible.
    After all, lovely maps
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  6. Razogoth

    Razogoth The Bees Knees Emerald Member

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    Oasis looks good to me (except for the pots) but I don't like California.

    This has several reasons:

    - HC has less good spots than Hotel
    - It has pots as hiding blocks
    - too many holes in the floor
    - leave piles everywhere to add hiding spots

    To me it looks like they removed most of the very good spots and then noticed that there are almost no hiding spots left so they added pots and leave piles + leaves.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  7. B1RTHDAY

    B1RTHDAY Honey Maker Ultimate Member

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    While these things are true, they're not negatives or holding anyone back. Flower Pots should not be a deciding factor when making a new map or revamping an old one as if it's the deciding block. It should be taken into consideration how Flower Pots will work as one block, but that is why you have other block choices as well. Pots can hide on maps that don't even have Flower Pots on them because they're so small.
    Given that most of the time seekers win the game (a lot of the time to Flower Pots), creating a larger amount of hiding spots isn't bad. More opportunities for hiders means more opportunity for taunts and movements in the Seeker's favor. When any new map is released, it's obvious that at first it'll be hard to find people, but that's because you just don't have the same knowledge of that map, than you do with another. Once people play it for some time- and time is big factor when deciding map changes- the spots will become second nature to check.
    Any parkour spots on the map aren't bad, it's just a welcomed challenge and a new factor in Hide and Seek that I think should be built upon. If they're not game breaking (such as a spot Seekers can't get to if the Hider corners themselves), then it just adds more opportunity, increases your game knowledge and experience, and can lead to more opportunities on maps. If a map had hiding spots you could get to by only parkour, it would be an awesome feature.

    I think Hotel California is a good map. Any new or changed map will of course be difficult because you're not familiar with it. If there are experienced players who know good hiding spots and can beat the seekers as mentioned above, that's not annoying, that's just a part of the game. There are also experienced Seekers. Not every game will be tipped in the balance of the hider, because sometimes you'll have better players on one team, or none at all. This is what creates the longevity in the game. If every person was good or bad, you wouldn't have any diversity in hiding spots or seeker abilities.
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  8. Asheras

    Asheras V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    Hotel California:
    I'm not a huge fan of Hotel California (it still looks nice and is a neat idea) as it has too many spots to hide as leaves or bookshelves. The fact that you can hide as a pot doesn't really help you hide any more effectively, which leads to getting found easily. In my opinion, what I'd consider "good" spots, do not exist on this map. The holes in the floor get filled and then those players are found easier because the holes suddenly not being there make them incredibly obvious. I have tried to find a good spot on this map since it was released and I barely got the achievement for it ONE time, every other time I was found. I don't like the idea of making new versions of old maps, make new unique maps instead. Similar to Frozen and Before Frozen, the two are practically identical, what's the point in having two? Space and Before Space are different and you can see the connection between the two, this is fun, but Hotel California and Hotel are just carbon copies of each other, and Hotel California has less spots to hide in and less coverage.

    Overall, I have heard nothing but negative feedback about this map, and believe, in my humble opinion, that it should be removed. Bear in mind, I am an Invisible rank and have played almost 2,000 rounds of hide and seek, so I'm quite familiar with what the players like and dislike when it comes to maps.

    Oasis:
    I love the look of this map so far. It's just wonderful and it seems like people are receiving it well. I have found a handful of decent spots here coupled with two very good spots that I would love to not be removed. Refer to the quote below for what I am referencing.

    Overall, I enjoy this map, and think it looks very promising. As I said before, the Hive should encourage unique maps, not carbon copies of older maps as this leads to frustration for many players that want new content.

    Great job to the builders of both maps. I know my criticism may be a bit harsh on Hotel California, but I did offer several different aspects of feedback.

    Keep it up, Hide and Seek, and keep being the best unique game mode you can be.
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  9. Nogget

    Nogget McDonalds Employee

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    Other players have already said the things I wanted to say for Hotel Cali, so I won't repeat that.

    Oasis:
    BARRIERS, we are in desperate need of them, it's too easy to boost people out of the map with just one person, which is a common problem we have in HnS.
    And as the other players have said before me, pots are our enemy, and we do not appreciate them.

    But basically the reason why the old maps are so popular with the players is because they are basic, they aren't trying to make the map look fancy, it's just as it is, which allows hiders to be creative when it comes to hiding, with these new maps we have been getting, they have been limiting us so much, basically the only places we can hide in are the pre-made hiding spots and they don't even work.
    Also a tip for map makers don't be afraid of a little empty space, it's better than having random block piles every few steps.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  10. JollyajaX

    JollyajaX Code Monkey/Pixel Pusher Hive Owner

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    There's ways to give feedback in things that need to change without the need for repeated question marks, calling things lazy or just throwing shade!

    Maps so often can be tweaked with very few changes, or even major ones can take a few days. It's saddening to see the trend of "feedback" being littered with un-needed comments such as "I'll call it a lazy copy". It makes it appear that you're taking low-blows, and wanting to be insulting more than helpful.

    That being said, thank you to those laying out feedback and a respectful manor, we'll pass the comments on and work on getting changes done; as we always try to do =)

    Added after post

    To add: I just think it's really rude how often people approach map feedback. You're not saying this to us, you're saying this to people who just... wanted to build a map. These are people that don't set out to make a map that's bad, they put hours in to try and provide you all with the best content they can. I think it's so, un-needed to start using terms like Jesse always does (I have warned him in the past, so he is banned from the forums until I can talk to him on Skype - if anyone has any issues with this I suggest PMing me and I can discuss why).

    Minecraft is meant to be fun, let's try and keep it that way. We don't make threads or replies to people on the vast amount of community maps we look at, in this way. We'd feel awful if we went to community map makers and said stuff "This is such typical bad gameplay from you", it wouldn't even cross our minds to say such at thing. Instead we say
    • This doesn't feel right, maybe lets do this to fix it!
    • Hmm, let's change this part to be this so it works better for x.
    • Sorry but the size just doesn't work, and the structure probably wouldn't play well; nice theme but maybe lets tweak things.
    Maybe I'm wrong in my thought process of feedback; I just try to always imagine that people have spent their time on things with good intentions - and I think that's a nice thing to do, for strangers on the internet. It doesn't hurt to be respectful whilst also giving feedback. Often the feedback is very fair, I just find it hard to read people saying things in such an aggressive way.

    <3
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  11. Sokc

    Sokc Regular Bee

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    ...Why were the ratings removed from Jesse's comment? That was very unnecessary. Some of his comments may have been slightly...derogatory, but they have some truth to them, and myself (along with many others in the community) agree with them.

    I agree with most of what has been said already. Since no one's actually mentioned the positive aspects of these two maps, I'll bring those up here.

    Hotel California:
    • Aesthetically well-built, pleasing block palette (as expected from TN)
    • Stays faithful to the original Hotel layout
    • It does seem to be slightly bigger than Hotel (wider hallways, etc), but it does not make the map too large at all—only spacious
    • The ceilings are higher on the first floor, and the builder has utilised that space well

    Oasis:
    • Again, another aesthetically well-built map
    • Very good map size—able to seek and clear, but with enough space for hiders

    To any potential builders:
    If you're planning on making a HnS map, please keep in mind what we are saying on threads like this! Many builders seem to be repeating the same mistake over and over. But to summarise...
    • No pots
    • No pile spam, especially in places that don't make sense (look at maps like Hotel, Lotus, TS: Revamped's interiors and Cruise for ways to incorporate hiding spots without the use of piles)
    • Don't build in any parkour spots (they're obvious, and 90% of the time are just annoying)
    • 3-5 hider block options. More is not better.
    • Try not to use (long) ladders as the sole method of getting to somewhere
    • If in doubt, over-barrier your map
    • Unique theme pls. No more town/market type maps, wintery maps, and also maybe avoid using regular sandstone as we've had two maps with strong sandstone use and a possible third one on its way.
    • https://forum.hivemc.com/threads/guide-the-complete-map-guidelines.279779/
    • https://forum.hivemc.com/threads/suggested-map-edits.274664/
    #11
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  12. Vaneskah

    Vaneskah V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    Damn Matt, I'm so happy you spoke so blunt. It needed to be said. I just wish people would get it.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  13. B1RTHDAY

    B1RTHDAY Honey Maker Ultimate Member

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    Hotel California is my favorite maps right now, and I don't think it's just because it's new so I'm feeling googly-eyed. I really like how it plays out, mainly because it's one of the few maps that isn't massive but there's plenty of hiding spots.

    I enjoy parkour spots if they're intentionally built into the map; but I'm not too enthusiastic when they're just climbing walls that happened to be there. If the map is centered around elevated hiding spots, or getting to different areas via jumping, then I think it would fit perfectly because that's the purpose to the map. When a map is just all out village-related and there's a parkour there, I think it just messes up the aesthetic. A great parkour map could be made using a skyship-type themed map where there are multiple levels, but the map is still small or medium sized. Not huge parkour checkpoints, but small paths that any beginner could learn and use efficiently.
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  14. JollyajaX

    JollyajaX Code Monkey/Pixel Pusher Hive Owner

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    I appreciate you agreed to the points, but I felt that level of backhanded comments shouldn't be rewarded. Like I stated, I have spoken to Jesse on Skype very bluntly over 4 times, yet he continues. He did it earlier this week too. I have noted his points but don't want that tone to continue, I have removed his comment.

    Regarding your comments, they're fair are written appropriately and will pass them on to Team Nectar, and will even try to get the recent additions modified with those points in mind :)

    Edit: Had to ban Sokc for being an alt of a previous banned forum user with over 10 accounts. Gah. Useful feedback but rules are rules
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  15. Asheras

    Asheras V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    This was so kindly worded, I just wanted to commend you for it. Much respect to you Jolly. I love how you handle player feedback.
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  16. JollyajaX

    JollyajaX Code Monkey/Pixel Pusher Hive Owner

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    Anyway, let's start sorting out what we can change to make everyone happy! Obviously the people that dislike things the most speak out, and I'm sure there are some people that are happy - doesn't mean we can't get the best result for everyone.

    Regarding Hotel California, I think it's really pretty and well made - that's just my personal opinion so of course you can disagree with that. That being said, I hear what you're saying regarding the gameplay; so let's talk about it!

    Reply with changes and I'd love to get a list together.

    For Hotel California:
    • Try and remove Flower Pots as a Hideable Block
    • Modify some of the windows to be a different wall design (IMO that's minor, but can have it on the list)
    • Leaves should be lowered
    • Because leaves are lowered, create new places to hide
    • Holes in floor/red-sandstone doesn't work too well, let's move on from that and try other mechanics
    For Oasis:
    • Parkour stuff isn't good for gameplay
    • Too many stacks of blocks
    • Out of map is currently too easier, add barriers
    Let me know if I've missed things. We'll also try and "Simplify" them a little, try not to over-engineer hiding spots and just let the players find them for themselves.
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  17. Asheras

    Asheras V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    I'd love it if we kept parkour spots in any map, that is part of what makes the game challenging and fun for players. They aren't intentionally put in place from my perspective and are cool to discover and use.
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  18. SadSock

    SadSock Regular Bee

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    Many of the new maps have spots that are intentionally put in place. Some of them aren't bad, but the majority of them just take too long to get to, and have too many. Having short shelves or ledges hiders can jump on isn't bad, but entire huts, high ledges etc that can only be reached by the use of ladders/parkour is unfair for seekers. Especially with the insane knockback hiders now have. It also takes away from hiding because it feels very artificial. I can go into more detail... but nah.

    Bear in mind, I am a Ghost rank and have played more than 30,000 rounds of hide and seek, so I'm quite familiar with not only what the players like and dislike when it comes to maps, but what really adds to or subtracts from the quality of a map. In your (partially) exact words. :)

    <3 :D
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  19. Asheras

    Asheras V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    @JollyajaX Your friend returned on another account.
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  20. Vaneskah

    Vaneskah V.I.BEE Ultimate Member

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    I was just gonna say! Lmao He really needs a life
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