[Discussion] Upcoming 'Hide and Seek gets some love' update

Discussion in 'Hide and Seek' started by b0xx3r, Feb 24, 2016.

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  1. LarseZ

    LarseZ Famous

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    I think some of the rank colours should be changed aswell, the "Shadow" rank looks waaay too much like the "Sneaky" rank. Even tough there's a 500k difference. It would also be cool if some ranks were bold like "Flash" on Deathrun or "Charged" on Electric Floor.
    #61
  2. M0untainDrew

    M0untainDrew Famous Emerald Member

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    Just a question about something. Will the leaderboards be changing to points instead of wins? Just a question I've been having.
    #62
  3. Deviations

    Deviations Talk of the Town

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    i don't believe they are.

    i hope they won't be.
    #63
  4. Convah

    Convah The Bees Knees Emerald Member

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    Agreed .-.
    #64
  5. Konings1991

    Konings1991 Talk of the Town

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    Nice list you made there :). Ik that blocks which dont become unsolid after they are hit is because the people are not moving their cameras (mouse, With other words they are AFK). Same as when you hit another hider as a hider and the hider you hit becomes unsolid :), that will only happen when they are looking around. The bug with a non-starting game is very interesting :). Always 1 hider and 1 seeker are placed in the map, Only the first seeker is able to kill the one hider thats in the map :p. This bug has something to do with the compass. You can provoke this in some way.

    One thing i would like to add is: Being spawned in the ground when the game starts. Meaby set the spawnpoint a little higher or such?

    I hope not, Being a hider and getting less points then when you seek, and need more time to win, is a very time consuming no life work. :) And that should be rewarded. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2016
    #65
  6. scrubzei

    scrubzei Well Known Bee

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    Arguably, seeking takes more skill and practice than hiding. Shouldn't the leaderboard rankings be a measure of skill and experience, rather than the time you spent on the game and ability to AFK hide? :eek:
    I'm sure many of you will disagree with me. But take a moment to think of all the leaderboarders who are obsessed with winning, and how that might change.
    #66
  7. anon0471

    anon0471 V.I.BEE

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    Look at the first page of the leaderboard. If it was to be sorted by points the current #12 would move several places down just because they have less points. Does this sound fair to you? People with a 0.8 w/l and over 6500 wins might completely move out of the top 50 just because others with nearly 2000 wins less have played more as a seeker. And no seeking doesn't take skill at all. You just need to memorize one map and then keep leaving every game it isn't voted for. Simple as that. The current leaderboard is good as it is because it represents the actual experience and skill. Points are just a number after all.
    #67
  8. Deviations

    Deviations Talk of the Town

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    not to name any names, but there are people who seek every game and have less than a 0.6 ratio.. this obviously shows no skill at all, especially when i watch them lose. there's also a nice example of someone like this on page 2 (again, not naming names.. you can probably guess, though.)

    i think the last thing we need is more tryhard seekers anyway
    #68
  9. scrubzei

    scrubzei Well Known Bee

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    Wins and win rate are numbers too. Just wanted to point that out, as you may have conveniently forgotten.
    Seeking isn't all about memorising a map. You of all people should know this. It's also about knowing where on a map hiders typically hide, the general location of those spots, the fastest and most efficient route to ensure you get as many kills as possible without missing any hiders and route overlaps. You will also need to be able to predict where a running hider is going to run next, and how to cut them off. On top of that, you must know about all the existing god spots that experienced players use, to be a good seeker. And if you are a good seeker, you are a good hider too. Full stop. The same can't be said vice versa. That being said, simply memorising a map isn't going to show you where all the parkour spots are.
    The only 'skill' hiding requires is being half-decent at parkour. Besides that, all you need is knowledge of where all the good hiding spots are and you're basically a pro at hiding already. But for seeking, it takes a while to memorise where the average players hide, and seeking routes take a bit of experimentation. It doesn't matter if you memorise a map, it won't tell you where a hider hides and doesn't hide.

    The logic of having the HnS leaderboards organised by wins being 'not fair' can be applied the other way around, too. Is it fair that people who are just as experienced as many of the players on the first page are pushed to the second, or even the third page because they don't take winning as seriously as others do? Organising the leaderboards by points allows for a wider variety of playing styles. Even if you die as a hider, you get points. In fact, it is almost impossible to not get any points in a round of HnS. However, winning is very 'win or lose'. You either win, or you lose, and that's that. There is no in between. Points are much less black and white.

    And that's why I'd rather the leaderboards be organised by points :D I'll admit, they probably won't change over to points. The win system has been going on for a while, and it'll probably piss off more people than it pleases if they sort it by points. So yeah, this argument is kinda pointless. I just wanted to make my opinion and reasoning known, is all.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
    #69
  10. Deviations

    Deviations Talk of the Town

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    i just don't understand why you want a skill-based leaderboard system, yet want it based off points? half the people who tryhard seek are not good at all.. i could easily shoot off 10 or so names off the top of my head of people who would skyrocket because of this change. not only this, but all this system in general encourages is more seeking, which is certainly something we don't need to breed. i get targeted enough as is by people who can't seem on anything other than cruise or hotel lol. doesn't really seem fair that someone like that should pass me.

    is it fair that someone with a 0.6 or whatever ratio pass me (someone with a .89 ratio) because i don't seek as much as them? as i see it, it would still be a matter of whom plays the most.

    and no, seeking takes no skill whatsoever. the people with these horrible ratios prove it; anyone can get 20+ kills a game, but actually sinning the game shows you're a decent seeker. i dont really care for having the leaderboards re-arranged based on a few people who seek all the time yet in reality lose half the games they play.

    so while the current system isn't fair, yours is also very far from fair. in my honest opinion, our current system is fine and needs no change. everyone on the leaderboards knows who the best players are, anyway.
    #70
  11. scrubzei

    scrubzei Well Known Bee

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    The problem with the win-based system is that it encourages one type of playing style if you want to move up the leaderboards: low-risk hiding. Low-risk hiding minimises your chances of being killed, and therefore maximises your chances of winning. When you hide to win, you typically use the same old reliable hiding spots, don't take any risks (e.g: hitting seekers) and you stay in one spot without moving. So basically, you don't do anything. No real effort is made. And I reckon everyone (if not, a good >95%) on the leaderboards has gone AFK whilst hiding at least once. The HnS win-based system encourages you to not play the game.
    So what does this mean for those who do play the game? The people who enjoy running around maps, those who enjoy seeking? Some of them have played just as many games as you have. But they're several places, or even pages down, just because this system of organisation doesn't give them recognition for their playing style. Games are meant to be played for fun. HnS is a great game because there are no real 'rules' as to how you should hide, or even how you should seek. Which is why I think that the leaderboard system should match up with the way HnS was made.
    And anyway, by making the leaderboards point-based it's not like we're banning hiding or anything. If you hide and win, you still get points. If you hide and lose, you also get points. No matter what you do, you're always going to get points (unless you try really hard not to).

    I also happened to notice that you think being able to win when seeking = being skilled. While this is true, I don't believe that this should be the sole reason why we organise the leaderboards by wins rather than points. Someone who is worse than you at seeking will still have to try a lot harder to catch up with you in points, because they won't have as many kills per game and the extra 50 points bonus for winning as seeker. And if you both seek for the same amount of rounds, you'll still earn more points than them because you're more skilled. So yes, point-based leaderboards are all about trying hard ;p
    Even so, everyone will have to work hard to maintain their position, and that's the kind of HnS I'd like to see. Whereas all you're seeing is 'Oh no, tryhards and targetters!'

    Also, don't bash on people because they have a lower W/L ratio than you.
    #71
  12. JollyajaX

    JollyajaX Code Monkey/Pixel Pusher Hive Owner

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    Let's move off the topic of leaderboards and focus on game-side stuff :) The plugin is important, the Leaderboard stuff can be dealt with at a later date - however we have no plans to update it AFAIK.
    #72
  13. Aajah

    Aajah V.I.BEE

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    This updates sound so great! I'm very excited to see this c: I don't know if it was mentioned or not but will Hide and Seek finally get bolded ranks?
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
    #73
  14. Konings1991

    Konings1991 Talk of the Town

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    They are not obsessed with winning, but with ratio, which isnt even important. But further you are right it is an opinion. But seeking hotel fast hast enything to do with being skilled tbh xD. its about getting a fast win but ok. xD :)
    #74
  15. catluvr2

    catluvr2 Talk of the Town

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    Anything going on with the not being able to use the sword/not being able to open doors while not solid bug?
    #75
  16. b0xx3r

    b0xx3r Ed the Social Panda Hive Owner

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    Bugs don't matter as we are re-coding it so there may be new bugs in testing, but all the old ones don't matter.
    #76
  17. canacona

    canacona V.I.BEE

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    Will the current bugs get temporary fixes? It's hard to play when you can't even open doors. I don't want to go back to 1.7 for a single gamemode, so I need to seek when I play it :(
    #77
  18. fengbaidi

    fengbaidi Honey Maker

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    Can i actually help making the hide and seek maps more detailed?
    #78
  19. b0xx3r

    b0xx3r Ed the Social Panda Hive Owner

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    We are not looking to edit the current and working ones beyond possibly adding in 1.8/1.9 blocks to the non playable parts, so gameplay stays the same but just looks a little fresher :) (and Team Nectar would do it, but thanks anyway.)
    #79
  20. Essej2

    Essej2 Famous Emerald Member

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    Hey,

    Since the server is being updated right now, can the new maps designed for Hide and Seek contain 1.8 and 1.9 blocks?

    EDIT (Since I can't doublepost): The Tab-menu is changed, so catching rulebreakers is a lot harder, would love to that changed back. Also, seeing yourself outside of F5-mode is very annoying and confusing.

    @b0xx3r @JollyajaX
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
    #80
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